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Originally posted by BigKev
i have used tren made with powder and tren converted from pellets and the cough is the same. its the substance not whats in it.
i have no doubt that long term use of tren will cause respiratory problems.
I'll defer to you, BigKev, because you have a lot of knowledge and experience...However, if the cough is caused by Tren itself, how come orally administered Tren tabs and transdermally applied Tren does not cause coughing/respiratory problems?
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i do think its the B.A. cuz i get cough/taste with QV enanthate 250/50cc too...im pretty sure the b.a. concentration is high in that
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I'm still thinking that it's the benzyl benzoate. I've read in the product literature of a number of oil-based injectables that a common reaction to injections administered too rapidly is a cough and/or coughing fits. The common denominator (besides the oil, of course) in all of these injectables I've looked at was that they all contained a relatively high percentage of BB.
Here's an example: in the product literature for Mesigyna (a hormonal contraceptive) you'll find the following warning:
"Mesigyna must always be administered as a deep intramuscular injection (preferably intragluteal, alternatively into the upper arm). Experience shows that the short-lasting reactions (urge to cough, coughing fits, respiratory distress) which occur in rare in cases during or immediately after the injection of oily solutions can be avoided by injecting the solution extremely slowly."
Another snippet from RxMed, this time describing reactions to an injection of Climacteron (a testosterone/estradiol preparation):
"A few instances of coughing, dyspnea and chest constriction have been reported with preparations containing benzyl benzoate."
Neither of the injectables noted above contain any benzyl alcohol. There are more examples like the ones above, just do a search. I'm gonna lay this one to rest in my mind and just attribute "The Cough" to the BB.
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Originally posted by Walter E Kurtz
I'll defer to you, BigKev, because you have a lot of knowledge and experience...However, if the cough is caused by Tren itself, how come orally administered Tren tabs and transdermally applied Tren does not cause coughing/respiratory problems?
Perhaps it is the speed at which it hits the system, my dear fellow.
With oral and topical administration, the absorption rate is much lower than IM injection.
Good day.
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Originally posted by PCX11A
Perhaps it is the speed at which it hits the system, my dear fellow.
With oral and topical administration, the absorption rate is much lower than IM injection.
Good day.
I agree. Also, I find as others have said to be true, when you get blood from the injection site (ie you damaged a vein) that is when you get the taste in your mouth and the cough. Now, I personally have not gotten tren cough even when I have went through a vein, but I do get the weird taste in my mouth and maybe get a little winded.
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i am leaning towards the solvents. i admit i have never had the cough that you guys talk about but i do know the "tren" taste in the mouth is like and i've actually gotten that exact same taste when shooting other gear ( i use chinese pretty much exclusively) i think its just the injection happening close to a bloodway and the solvents get into the blood stream.
how could it be the Tren Acting that fast? there is at least an acetate ester attached which wouldn't make sense that it was the hormone. + i get the same taste somtimes from other injectables???
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As a preliminary, I still get tren cough even from the transdermal........but anyway.......there are at least three pathways by which tren may cause "tren cough" in susceptible individuals: 1) tren can interfere with the production of prostaglandins which release mucus in the throat either by itself or by a cortisol "bounce" that can occur in certain individuals that use tren (which also decreases production of prostaglandins leading to a dry throat)......2) Angiotensin Converting Enzyme (ACE) inactivates tussive peptides in the airways such as bradykinin and tachykinins. It is believed that tren along with other drugs or substances that inhibit the action of ACE may contribute to the accumulation of these peptides, thus promoting cough in susceptible individuals. It's interesting to note that ACE inhibition by other drugs produces many the same sides some users of tren have reported, including kidney issues.......3) "Serotonin cough"....coughing is also associated with serotonin syndrome. SS is thought to occur with use of any drug or combination of drugs that have net effect of increasing serotonergic neurotransmission. This could be from augmented serotonin synthesis, increase in serotonin release, inhibition of serotonin uptake, inhibition of serotonin metabolism and directly stimulating postsynaptic serotonin receptors....tren directly affects serotonin levels which is evidenced by the "tren temper" that some complain about.... and there seems to be little question that speed of delivery can be an influencing factor......my one quarter of a cent.......
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Well, in fact I am on a WATER based tren right now, and indeed I do get the dry throat and slight cough!
It is not related to the solvents.
>Angiotensin Converting Enzyme (ACE) inactivates tussive >peptides in the airways
This is much more interesting hypothesis.
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I think the affect just varies from person to person. I had to stop my last cycle of converted tren because i would start coughing so bad i would start throwing up, and i also got some allergic reaction that made me brake out in a rash. My buddy on the other hand used to rest of my tre nthat i had left, around 30ml or so, and had no probs at all. This cycle i have been using tren that i made from the recrystalization method that is supposed to get all of the fillers out. I have not had the cough as bad or the rash, but i did have the cough a few times, one time really bad. It seems that when i inject into larger muscles such as glutes or legs is when i get the cough, shoulders and tries i never do. I also have been mixing sterile oil with it and no cough since then, i also have been using some QV tren that i got for free, and no cough with it either.
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10-23-2017, 05:36 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-23-2017, 06:23 PM by tobikerboy.)
I have to say it is the solvents. I've been getting a nasty cough on my homemade cyp and deca. I have their ba @5% and bb @10%. It feels exactly the same as the tren cough, just with a different taste/smell.
If the TREN cough is the same as the ACE inhibitor cough:
THIS is the simple experiment (Iron supplementation!)
WHO wants to be the guinea PIGS? Its simple enough:
(I have the slight tickling right now..I will test this out)
ACE inhibitor takers plagued with cough may have iron-clad cure
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Iron supplements may be a simple remedy for the �common cough� associated with a widely used cardiovascular drug, according to a study in this month�s Hypertension: Journal of the American Heart Association.
�Dry cough is the most often reported and troublesome complication associated with angiotensin-converting enzyme (ACE) inhibitor use, but its mechanism remains to be clarified,� says study author Kyung Pyo Hong, M.D. �Iron may be a key element in the control of the dry cough.�
ACE inhibitors are widely prescribed for the treatment of hypertension, heart failure and other cardiac conditions. They improve overall survival rates and reduce complications in patients with cardiovascular disease. While dry cough is not a serious complication, it is the most frequent reason people stop taking these medicines, says Hong, professor of medicine and chief, division of cardiology, Samsung Medical Center, Sungkyunkwan University, School of Medicine in Seoul, Korea.
According to the study, the incidence of ACE inhibitor-induced cough varies in published reports from 5 percent to 39 percent. This is the first study to look at the effect of iron on the cough caused by taking ACE inhibitors.
Small doses of iron may be enough to suppress the cough, Hong says.
Hong and his colleagues studied 19 Korean patients who had developed persistent dry cough while taking ACE inhibitors. The six men and 13 women were 60 years old on average. The researchers defined an ACE inhibitor-induced cough as a �dry cough that occurred during ACE inhibitor use and subsided within seven days after discontinuation of the drug and reappeared in 48 hours after reintroduction of the drug.� Participants completed a diary during an initial two-week observation period while taking the ACE inhibitor only. They were asked to score their cough severity on the following scale: 0: no cough; 1: a tickling sensation in the throat; 2: mild cough which did not interfere with daily activities; 3: moderate cough which was tolerable but severe enough to interrupt activities for some time; and 4: severe cough which persisted, interfered with daily activities and disturbed sleep at night. They recorded their cough scores for two 12-hour periods each day � between 8 a.m. and 8 p.m., then at night from 8 p.m. to 8 a.m. At the end of the observation period, researchers sampled participants� blood and measured iron levels using various markers such as hemoglobin, hematocrit, serum iron concentration, ferritin levels, and total iron binding capacity (TIBC). Participants then took either a daily morning tablet of 256 milligrams ferrous sulfate (iron) or placebo for four weeks. Study subjects documented their coughs during the treatment period then gave another blood sample at the end of the four weeks.
The average daily cough score in the iron group was 3.07 at the end of the first two weeks, but 1.69 after four weeks of iron supplementation. Those in the placebo group did not have a significant change in their cough scores � 2.57 before and 2.35 after treatment. Eight of the 10 subjects in the iron group showed improvement in cough scores; whereas one in nine subjects in the placebo group showed improvement. Three patients in the iron group showed a near complete end to their coughing with a cough score of less than 1.
There was no significant difference in blood levels of hemoglobin, hematocrit, iron, TIBC or ferritin between the iron and placebo groups at the beginning of the study. Average ferritin levels increased in the iron group from 68.15 micrograms per liter (ug/L) at baseline to 86.03 ug/L after two weeks of iron treatment, but this difference did not reach a statistically significant level. Ferritin levels remained about the same in the placebo group (102.47 before and 98.97 after). There were no significant changes in hemoglobin, hematocrit, iron, or TIBC levels in either group.
�Supplementation of iron clearly showed a beneficial effect in most of these subjects, and this effect could not be found in the placebo group,� says Hong.
Iron supplementation has been reported to decrease the production of nitric oxide, which is known to have inflammatory effects on bronchial cells in the lungs.
Hong says that further investigation is warranted to verify these findings and study the long-term effects
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